We aren't talking bows and arrows from the days of the Indians. Today we have compound bows and crossbows(my favourite) which is as humane as any hunting rifle in bringing down a deer. I know there are a large number of people who just don't want Bambi killed.

Bambi has devasted the forest floor which leads to all sorts of problems for a healthy forest. Also Bambi is kind enough to leave all the kindling alone creating perfect conditions when dry enough for a forest sized bonfire which I'm sure no one wants. Proper forest management means culling the deer population back to safe levels whether by rifle, bow, or crossbow.

I believe we have a hunting season dedicated for the purpose of culling the deer herd. This is done under the premise of "forest management". Allowing hunting within the village isn't going to save the forest if that is in fact your concern.

Joe.

Take a walk through BlackRock or contact one of their foresters. The damamge has already been done. With the current amount of hunters there is no culling of the deer. The forest floor has been deforested not only putting it in jeopardy of a devastating fire but leaving it susceptible to invasive species which harm the entire ecosystem.

"Allowing hunting within the village isn't going to save the forest if in fact it (sic) is your concern" Why would you think it is not my concern? It is in fact my overriding concern. It you want to keep a healthy forest proper management of the deer is imperative.
When traveling through the village you can see the deers browse lines everywhere.

BTW, I'm not a hunter if that was your implication
about my post. I suggest a little research on your part would open your eyes to our problem with the overabundance of deer. We have forced away their natural predators sans the few coyote we still have.

The following paragraph I borrowed from a web site on deer overpopulation.

Over abundant deer herds cost society much in the loss of agriculture and domestic plants. In addition, collisions with motorists, and the expense of human health problems such as Lyme disease add to the issues of dealing with dense populations of deer.

Little research Joe and maybe you will understand the problem we have here in COH and Cornwall.

Pat Welch

Joe,

I wonder how you feel about the geese in Riverlight Park. A real Currier & Ives picture isn't it.

Too bad all the FECAL matter spread generously across the grass makes it a health hazard to enjoy except from afar or a photographers pics. This is another matter the Town has failed to act upon. The geese in fact like it here so much they now stay the winter adding their special fertilizer all over the place.

Rockland Lake had this problem years back, rounded up the geese and fed them at a homeless shelter. Great idea if it's healthy enough to do. Otherwise they should be rounded up and gassed per NYS regs.

It would be so nice to see the kids get their park back. It always amazes me how many favour the geese over the children. Simply amazing.

Pat Welch

"inhumane"? why don't you research industrial meat production and then come tell me bow hunting is inhumane. If you think it is inefficient then you are only familiar with sloppy hunters. My husband and son put meat on our table every year. it is healthier than the processed meat that you buy in a store. If you're concerned about inefficiency then have the culled deer donated to the homeless shelters where the folks would love to have a nutritious meal. We have skewed the balance of nature by eliminating the predators and planting snacks. The more you plant, the more deer show up. Is it humane to allow deer to overpopulate beyond their food supply and then starve? The tendency to anthropomorphism is counterproductive and a distortion of reality. It is insane that people are starving in the midst of bounty.

I had a post on this site a few days ago that was removed because it came up as anonymous. I did in fact hav my name in all the right places on the information page. I will attempt to re - write my points.

Hunting is a natural process. Both sides of the issue have valid points. Hunting in the village may be dangerous but there is a great program called venisondonation.com that provides licensed hunters with a place to donate venison to legally authorized processors that convert the meat into meals that are donated to the needy. another comment I had was regarding the deer v.s. car comments. It is a popular belief that many deer v.s car accidents go un - reported due to excessive rates that may be incurred when the accident is so minor.
lastly I am not sure why my comments were removed. They were not hostile, damaging to anyone or prevocative.

aka Nortrud Spero

Regarding the goose problem mentioned above; most wild life experts would tell you that feeding wildlife is a mistake in fact in some cases it's illegal. This is another issue that Cornwallites need to consider. The geese hang around Ring's Pond because they know they will get a handout. Feeding any wildlife upsets the balance of nature which may lead to many other problems, over -population, disease and goose droppings all over our parks!

Bill Clark,

Good Post. Huge mistake in feeding the geese. I realise most people mean well but it the worst approach one can take at managing the geese population. It's no wonder they stay here all winter. Well feed by people who don't know better. People should be informed. Maybe a few signs should be put up and if the P.D. see it happening a helpful word of advice how destructive feeding the geese really is.
Have you noticed the algae problem in Rings Pond? With this cool weather there should be no problem. I'm not a biologist but I bet it's a direct result of the geese fecal matter polluting the pond water.

Pat Welch

It's caused by the run-off of excess nitrogen from people's chemically treated lawns. What you don't see is how it affects the Hudson, or drinking water sources. I'm no fan of these geese, but they are not the problem in this case...we are.

Gioia,

Take a walk through Riverlight Park BAREFOOT and then get back to us and tell us the problem again. Unless the town is using fertilizer and I don't see any private property that has runoff into Rings Pond it's the geese. Let me know how you enjoy that nice squishy feeling between your toes. Real healthy too. ;)

I think Rick has a good point here. Ring's Pond is a low point(notice how the water o'erflows onto Hudson Street after a huge rain) it is located below the Weeks estates and the
neighborhoods going up Duncan. Take a walk through those neighborhoods and see how many homes use a landscaper: cutting, landscaping, irrigating, fertilizing, pruning, etc. ALL the stuff that we put on the Earth seeps into our own systems, in one way or another. The Canada goose was a protected species for so long the population is out of hand. I say the feed the people~ those suckers are grass fed and dee-licious. That will manage the poo problem quite nuicely, I think

Rick is absolutely correct. I would love to have nice squishy grass but until I find another method weeds with a grass mixture is the order

Goose Life Facts:

Life Span of up to 24 years.
Mating is for life. If a mate is lost, a new mate is often found.
Average nest size 3 to 6 eggs with as many as 12 possible.
Molting of adult birds occurs every summer, for up to a 6 week period, rendering all birds flightless
Nests can be very large, up to 4 feet across, built on land and usually close to water.
Geese are grazing animals, eating grasses and other succulent plant material.
An adult goose eats up to 4 lbs of grass daily.
An adult goose drops 2 lbs of fecal matter daily
goose fecal matter has been linked to the spread of diseases and bacterial infections(CDC).
Population growth ranges from 10 to 17% annually.
Geese typically return to the same nesting and birth sites every year.

John why not be a sport and get a wheelbarrow and rid us of this fecal matter if Rick is right. It's only 2lbs per goose per day I'm sure after several wheelbarrows daily you will agree your just full of it. :)

Pat Welch

Ecology of Influenza A Viruses
Avian influenza A viruses are common and widespread in birds. Most viruses in this family attack the intestinal tract of the host preferentially and are spread mainly by shedding in host feces (18,19). Waterfowl, e.g., ducks, geese, and swans (Anseriformes), and shorebirds (Charadriiformes) are particularly susceptible because they are exposed to water that may be contaminated with infected fecal matter, especially at specific sites and seasons, when these birds congregate densely at relatively confined and shallow water bodies. A secondary mode of viral spread is consumption of infected avian host parts by predators, including captive carnivores, avian raptors, and carrion-feeding vertebrates. Infection by most avian influenza A strains appears to be asymptomatic for the host (18). Proportions of birds shedding active virus can be high (e.g., >30% in some Canadian duck populations) among juvenile waterfowl gathered in large flocks on lakes and ponds during the summer postbreeding molting period but decrease rapidly during southward migration, falling to 1% to 2% during winter (18). Nevertheless, shedding of active virus can remain as high as 0.25% by individual birds among northbound spring migrants, sufficient to reinfect.

Heck even the CDC gets it.

Pat Welch

The quotation from the article on the CDC web site has no bearing on the problem at Rings Pond. The article is talking about transmission within bird populations, not between birds and humans. In fact, the abstract of the article says: "Vagrants and migratory birds are not likely interhemispheric introductory hosts; import of infected domestic or pet birds is more probable. If reassortment or mutation were to produce a virus adapted for rapid transmission among humans, birds would be unlikely introductory hosts because of differences in viral transmission mechanisms among major host groups (i.e., gastrointestinal for birds, respiratory for humans)." And from the body of the paper: "Humans and other mammals normally are not susceptible to infection by avian influenza A viruses. Nevertheless, several subtypes of avian influenza or bird-origin influenza viruses have infected humans; 3 of these subtypes have caused pandemics within the past century. At present, HPAI H5N1 is entirely an avian influenza subtype. Humans can become infected, but so far as is known, they must inhale or ingest massive viral doses from excreta or tissues of infected birds to do so. Although clinically ill humans have high death rates, ≈50%, passage of H5N1 virus from human to human is rare (3)."

No one should be worried about getting the flu from the geese at Rings Pond.

Carlotta,

People cannot share the park because it is LOADED with Geese Feces. Take your shoes and socks off and be my guest and take a stroll with Gioia Barefoot in the Park. LOL

Whether or not anyone wants to walk barefoot in the park has nothing to do with the implication in your previous comment that people can contract avian influenza from the geese feces in the park. That's the only issue I was addressing in my comment. Of course, the geese are a problem, but not because of any flu risk. E. coli, Salmonella, and other enteric bacteria? Yes. Flu? No.

Carlotta wins. And the prize is a steel brush to scrape the C&@* off her shoes. You have to admit she made a very effective rebuttal. Huzzah for research!
As for a solution - I say let's eat them.

I have three cats and a yard full of deer, so I'm used to stepping in stuff. Anyway, I like to challenge my immune system. "What does not kill me makes me stronger."

Cryptosporidiosis: A Brief Literature Review and Update regarding Cryptosporidium in Feces of Canada Geese
Journal article by Hailu Kassa, Brian J. Harrington, Michael S. Bisesi; Journal of Environmental Health, Vol. 66, 2004

Journal Article Excerpt

Cryptosporidiosis: A Brief Literature Review and Update regarding Cryptosporidium in Feces of Canada Geese (Branta Canadensis).

by Hailu Kassa , Brian J. Harrington , Michael S. Bisesi

Introduction

Cryptosporidium, a protozoan parasite, is an important cause of the human enteric disease cryptosporidiosis. The disease is among the most common causes of diarrhea in patients with AIDS in the United States (Juranek, 1995). In recent years, laboratory-confirmed cases of cryptosporidiosis have become increasingly evident in the United States (Dietz & Roberts, 2000). According to one study, 17 percent to 32 percent of immunocompetent persons in Virginia, Texas, and Wisconsin, as well as immunocompetent Peace Corps volunteers (before travel), had serological evidence of Cryptosporidium infection by young adulthood (Guerrant, 1997).

The parasite has an oocyst stage that is highly resistant to drying and commonly used disinfectants. The infective dose may be as low as 30 oocysts in healthy adults with no evidence of previous infection (DuPont et al., 1995) but is probably less than 30 oocysts for immunocompromised persons. The most common modes of infection are ingestion of contaminated food or water and direct contact with infected persons, animals, or contaminated environmental surfaces (Desselberger, 2000).

Infection with Cryptosporidium is rarely fatal. Most infected persons are asymptomatic or, if symptomatic, recover with no therapeutic treatment. Symptoms may vary from a self-limiting diarrhea in healthy people to severe and occasionally fatal diarrhea in immunocompromised people, particularly among those with late-stage AIDS (Navin & Hardy, 1987). Diarrhea, when present, may be intermittent. Oocysts may be excreted...

No Carlotta just did not do enough research. Geeces Feces IS dangerous to humans.

Carlotta rebut that FACT'

Fact is you can't and I could add to that list of dangers to humans from Geese feces. Yours is a case of not being able to see the trees through the forest.

Tell me again why we can't eat them or harvest them and feed those in need?
Grass fed, plump and juicy. Think how many food pantries could be stocked with a nutritious source of protein.

This is getting ridiculous! Of course geese feces can infect humans with microbes (parasites, bacteria, etc.) that cause gastrointestinal symptoms. I never claimed otherwise. Why would I try to rebut things that I agree with? All I said was that it is very unlikely that Cornwall residents are going to get INFLUENZA from geese feces. END OF STORY.

Well, not quite end of story...

I feel compelled to point out that although geese feces can contain various infectious microbes that can be dangerous to humans, stepping in feces, even in bare feet, does not lead to instantaneous death, or even necessarily to infection. Unbroken skin is impermeable to microbes, and as long as you keep your hands away from your face until you can wash them when you get home, infection is unlikely from a stroll around the pond. In addition, even if microbes make their way into your body, you do have an immune system after all, both innate and adaptive. You may have noticed in the Cryptosporidium excerpt you posed that the parasite rarely causes problems for immunocompetent people.

If the geese feces were really as dangerous as you seem to think they are, I would expect the hospital to be reporting massive outbreaks of gastrointestinal illnesses after the town?s July 4th festivities.

Geese feces CAN be dangerous, but they're hardly worth getting all worked up about. Driving a car is much more dangerous than walking barefoot around the pond.

Carlotta,

To be quite frank I find it ridiculous to put geese ahead of human beings. The park should be filled with children, unfortunately the geese have taken over because some people believe the geese come first. I have to agree with Kate and say have a roundup bringing the population down to a manageable size so the kids can enjoy the park and the idea of feeding the Geese to the less fortunate is Great. It worked at Rockland Lake.

And don't tell me it's a mean thing to do unless you have never shopped at our MegaStores where things are made with underage labour in sweatshop like conditions.
Also take a "gander" at the soles of some of your shoes. Nothing like a goose feathered pillow too.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm putting animals in front of people or that I think it would be "mean" to round up the geese. I said nothing of the sort. I'm not an animal rights activist, I don't have a problem with hunters, and I'm not a vegetarian. All my pillows are goose down, and I eat venison. I'm simply pointing out your misinterpretations and distortions of the scientific literature on infectious disease. Please read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

And, for what it's worth, I don't in fact shop at megastores, although what that has to do with the price of tea in China, I'm sure I don't know.

That's quite obvious.

Maybe you should stick with knitting and sewing?

Pat Welch

Knitting and sewing--well that certainly is a compelling argument for your contention that goose poop is a health hazard. I see that further discussion would be pointless.

Right, Go jogging around PooP park and enjoy cleaning out your sneaks.

(If Carlotta would like to sew I would ask that she sew me a big fat goose down comforter.) I can't imagine anyone defending the 'right' of the geese to foul the park and contaminate the waters. I think it is ludicrous that we can't harvest the darn things and provide for those in need. Some have suggested fake alligators, herding dogs, greasing the eggs under the protection of umbrellas, (my god, could you *believe* that article!?) birth control, grape flavored repellant... what a waste of energy! Change the law to reflect the change in the status of the darn things and feed the people. Roast goose and venison abound.